1 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:03,240 hello everyone welcome to pair reversal 2 00:01:06,810 --> 00:01:04,930 universe on the inception radio network 3 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:06,820 brought to you by the northern Wisconsin 4 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:08,890 Paranormal Society limited in the North 5 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:10,450 Woods paranormal resource our urine 6 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:13,090 under Wisconsin we're your hosts Kevin 7 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:15,010 and Jennifer male hello everybody and 8 00:01:18,719 --> 00:01:17,110 hello to everybody in the hyerin chat 9 00:01:22,980 --> 00:01:18,729 room we look forward to your questions 10 00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:22,990 and comments as always iron chat 11 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:26,320 comments the link to the chat room so 12 00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:29,350 come join us there and before we bring 13 00:01:34,139 --> 00:01:30,880 tonight's guest out we're gonna do 14 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:34,149 shoutouts shoutouts go to those folks 15 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:36,490 who share our banner or show banners 16 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:39,250 every week we appreciate it very much 17 00:01:48,210 --> 00:01:44,110 we have for this we have Walter Brooks 18 00:01:50,779 --> 00:01:48,220 thoughts of christos Jason bland Jamie 19 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:50,789 develops paranormal soup 20 00:01:59,100 --> 00:01:56,170 Shannon glisten Zuma Falcon may toes 10 21 00:02:03,240 --> 00:01:59,110 and salmon Rose nyl demonology today 22 00:02:08,850 --> 00:02:03,250 radio Debbie grass burger Shmuel brands 23 00:02:10,230 --> 00:02:08,860 paranormal and Don and Brent Elmer thank 24 00:02:14,250 --> 00:02:10,240 you everybody for sharing our banners 25 00:02:17,790 --> 00:02:14,260 and thanks everybody our regular cat 26 00:02:19,980 --> 00:02:17,800 crew and those that come in a chat it's 27 00:02:22,230 --> 00:02:19,990 always good to see you there tonight 28 00:02:24,449 --> 00:02:22,240 we're gonna cover a topic that believe 29 00:02:26,850 --> 00:02:24,459 it or not we haven't dealt into before 30 00:02:29,220 --> 00:02:26,860 in the earth we've been on a para versa 31 00:02:32,130 --> 00:02:29,230 universe that would be serial killers 32 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:32,140 and tonight we're going to discuss two 33 00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:35,410 famous serial killers in history HH 34 00:02:40,610 --> 00:02:38,110 Holmes and Jeff dobrze who may actually 35 00:02:43,050 --> 00:02:40,620 be one in the same person 36 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:43,060 now what this tonight is the 37 00:02:48,059 --> 00:02:45,910 great-great-grandson of HH Holmes mr. 38 00:02:50,729 --> 00:02:48,069 Jeff budget author of the book 39 00:02:54,510 --> 00:02:50,739 bloodstains which Jennifer just been a 40 00:02:58,339 --> 00:02:54,520 street and he's a star on a TV show 41 00:03:00,479 --> 00:02:58,349 American River now Jennifer and myself 42 00:03:03,540 --> 00:03:00,489 attended the Chicago ghosts conference 43 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:03,550 last October and we had the chance to 44 00:03:09,290 --> 00:03:06,550 meet Jeff in person and listen to his 45 00:03:13,170 --> 00:03:09,300 lecture regarding the mystery which was 46 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:13,180 quite well done and very interesting 47 00:03:17,490 --> 00:03:15,010 so much though that Jennifer asked Jeff 48 00:03:19,470 --> 00:03:17,500 to spend an hour with us tonight so we 49 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:19,480 can explore this mystery with our 50 00:03:26,009 --> 00:03:23,530 audience and of course Jeff viciously 51 00:03:29,210 --> 00:03:26,019 said yes so without further ado let's 52 00:03:32,099 --> 00:03:29,220 bring in Jeff on Jeff are you with us 53 00:03:34,380 --> 00:03:32,109 Kevin Jennifer thank you very much it's 54 00:03:38,550 --> 00:03:34,390 a pleasure to be on para versa universe 55 00:03:40,349 --> 00:03:38,560 radio with you tonight and thank you for 56 00:03:44,699 --> 00:03:40,359 being on we've been looking forward to 57 00:03:48,830 --> 00:03:44,709 this ever since you said yes yeah yeah 58 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:48,840 which I enjoy shows like yours I enjoy 59 00:03:53,879 --> 00:03:51,250 answering the questions from you and 60 00:03:56,309 --> 00:03:53,889 your audience and looking forward to new 61 00:03:58,920 --> 00:03:56,319 material new questions to ask that may 62 00:04:01,020 --> 00:03:58,930 be quite often when I go on shows like 63 00:04:03,420 --> 00:04:01,030 this we come up with new material 64 00:04:05,069 --> 00:04:03,430 because the great ideas from the hosts 65 00:04:08,429 --> 00:04:05,079 and the audience so I'm always excited 66 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:08,439 about doing them that's awesome that is 67 00:04:14,309 --> 00:04:11,290 that's great yeah I know you've done 68 00:04:18,210 --> 00:04:14,319 many podcasts I so I hope that we can 69 00:04:21,449 --> 00:04:18,220 throw some some good stuff your way and 70 00:04:26,159 --> 00:04:21,459 you know there's so much to the amazing 71 00:04:30,089 --> 00:04:26,169 story and of course we only have an hour 72 00:04:33,629 --> 00:04:30,099 so why don't we start with the book 73 00:04:35,399 --> 00:04:33,639 bloodstains oh when did you first decide 74 00:04:40,189 --> 00:04:35,409 to write a book and what was the 75 00:04:43,379 --> 00:04:40,199 catalyst or initial motivation behind it 76 00:04:47,820 --> 00:04:43,389 you know I would I would imagine the the 77 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:47,830 initial motivation was 20 years ago when 78 00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:50,710 my grandfather revealed to the family 79 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:52,900 that he carried this horrible burden 80 00:04:58,640 --> 00:04:55,930 with him alone his entire life he hadn't 81 00:05:01,409 --> 00:04:58,650 even told my grandmother that our 82 00:05:05,149 --> 00:05:01,419 ancestor was perhaps the most evil man 83 00:05:09,029 --> 00:05:05,159 in American history and that he expected 84 00:05:13,830 --> 00:05:09,039 all of us to help us with that burden 85 00:05:17,219 --> 00:05:13,840 now and in particular he was considering 86 00:05:20,339 --> 00:05:17,229 me and I was a practicing California 87 00:05:23,940 --> 00:05:20,349 lawyer at the time had dealt with 88 00:05:26,370 --> 00:05:23,950 criminal cases knew knew the 89 00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:26,380 ramifications of what we're involved 90 00:05:29,430 --> 00:05:26,800 with 91 00:05:33,740 --> 00:05:29,440 the statute of limitations and and cold 92 00:05:38,490 --> 00:05:33,750 capital cases I began to do research 93 00:05:41,670 --> 00:05:38,500 regarding this horrible man who was my 94 00:05:42,869 --> 00:05:41,680 roots who was my origins and before I 95 00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:42,879 knew it 96 00:05:48,869 --> 00:05:46,180 Jennifer I had an obsession which pretty 97 00:05:50,969 --> 00:05:48,879 much caused me to set my career aside to 98 00:05:55,020 --> 00:05:50,979 determine what was true and what was 99 00:05:57,510 --> 00:05:55,030 false in this legend about this this man 100 00:06:00,920 --> 00:05:57,520 that you know that they created the 101 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:00,930 phrase serial killer 4 and also 102 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:05,530 psychopathic so as my research group 103 00:06:12,689 --> 00:06:08,530 deeper and deeper instead of answering 104 00:06:15,689 --> 00:06:12,699 the questions that I initially had that 105 00:06:17,939 --> 00:06:15,699 they just they kept growing like like 106 00:06:20,969 --> 00:06:17,949 you're you are planting seeds in a field 107 00:06:24,379 --> 00:06:20,979 and still to this day you know as I talk 108 00:06:29,249 --> 00:06:24,389 to you and Kevin in Chicago new material 109 00:06:31,890 --> 00:06:29,259 continues to come up and which you know 110 00:06:34,140 --> 00:06:31,900 I need to do more and more work and it's 111 00:06:35,339 --> 00:06:34,150 help from you and host like you and 112 00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:35,349 Kevin that that helped me get through 113 00:06:41,459 --> 00:06:37,240 some of the the new questions coming 114 00:06:47,490 --> 00:06:41,469 coming out so it's I don't quite know 115 00:06:49,439 --> 00:06:47,500 how to describe Co exactly you know if a 116 00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:49,449 reader wants to pick up my book and and 117 00:06:56,519 --> 00:06:53,680 see and step into my shoes to have their 118 00:06:58,980 --> 00:06:56,529 grandfather tell them that you know 119 00:07:01,619 --> 00:06:58,990 their their their origins were were 120 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:01,629 these evil there was this evil being but 121 00:07:06,180 --> 00:07:04,240 that's what I tried to do when I wrote 122 00:07:08,909 --> 00:07:06,190 the book and set up just another book 123 00:07:12,029 --> 00:07:08,919 about HH Holmes which there are hundreds 124 00:07:15,510 --> 00:07:12,039 of I wanted this one to be more personal 125 00:07:18,749 --> 00:07:15,520 I wanted it to be more about my journey 126 00:07:23,519 --> 00:07:18,759 and how that knowledge changed my entire 127 00:07:30,839 --> 00:07:23,529 life you know one of the things I 128 00:07:35,129 --> 00:07:30,849 remember early from the show was was it 129 00:07:37,649 --> 00:07:35,139 the tackle box and the secret 130 00:07:39,110 --> 00:07:37,659 compartment now did that that stuff come 131 00:07:45,379 --> 00:07:39,120 along before 132 00:07:47,810 --> 00:07:45,389 the book and before the the show oh yeah 133 00:07:49,550 --> 00:07:47,820 a long time before that was my 134 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:49,560 grandfather left me to those when he 135 00:07:55,580 --> 00:07:53,090 passed when he passed away my as I 136 00:07:57,379 --> 00:07:55,590 described in the book Jennifer you can 137 00:08:00,190 --> 00:07:57,389 jump in and help me if you'd like but my 138 00:08:04,190 --> 00:08:00,200 father delivered me those tackle boxes 139 00:08:07,070 --> 00:08:04,200 one day out of the blue I pretty much 140 00:08:10,690 --> 00:08:07,080 set them aside not not very much 141 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:10,700 interested in them for personal reasons 142 00:08:16,219 --> 00:08:14,130 you know as I also tried to explain in 143 00:08:21,530 --> 00:08:16,229 the book my grandfather was this very 144 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:21,540 cold stoic personality who had not shown 145 00:08:28,730 --> 00:08:26,370 any love to me my entire life as a 146 00:08:30,860 --> 00:08:28,740 matter of fact he he was a man who would 147 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:30,870 go fishing almost every weekend and when 148 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:33,890 I was a little boy I lived to fish and 149 00:08:39,589 --> 00:08:36,770 imagine Kevin your grandfather never 150 00:08:43,130 --> 00:08:39,599 inviting you to go fishing with him when 151 00:08:45,470 --> 00:08:43,140 he knew you were waiting you know with 152 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:45,480 bated breath every time he walked by for 153 00:08:51,079 --> 00:08:48,450 that invite and as you can imagine I 154 00:08:54,950 --> 00:08:51,089 didn't have any love for the man 155 00:08:57,950 --> 00:08:54,960 and when my father you know brought 156 00:08:59,840 --> 00:08:57,960 those tackle boxes to me I didn't show 157 00:09:02,380 --> 00:08:59,850 any sympathy at all I pretty much stuff 158 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:02,390 them into the corner of a garage and 159 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:04,770 they sat there for quite a period of 160 00:09:11,450 --> 00:09:08,370 time until one day I went out and 161 00:09:13,460 --> 00:09:11,460 rummaged through his artifacts his 162 00:09:17,060 --> 00:09:13,470 fishing gear and then you know found 163 00:09:19,070 --> 00:09:17,070 found the material that pretty much 164 00:09:24,470 --> 00:09:19,080 makes up the cornerstone for the book 165 00:09:25,220 --> 00:09:24,480 bloodstains so how did television get 166 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:25,230 involved 167 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:31,650 I had either of you watched my TED talk 168 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:34,650 that I gave in Vancouver about the 169 00:09:38,980 --> 00:09:37,770 Holmes connection to Jack the Ripper no 170 00:09:41,449 --> 00:09:38,990 not yet 171 00:09:43,699 --> 00:09:41,459 okay it's on YouTube if any of your 172 00:09:47,449 --> 00:09:43,709 listeners would like to go there if they 173 00:09:49,940 --> 00:09:47,459 google up TED talk and HH Holmes Jack 174 00:09:52,670 --> 00:09:49,950 the Ripper they'll they'll see me giving 175 00:09:56,739 --> 00:09:52,680 a talk to three or four thousand people 176 00:10:01,160 --> 00:09:56,749 and it went quite well 177 00:10:04,129 --> 00:10:01,170 history watched my talk and fell in love 178 00:10:06,939 --> 00:10:04,139 with the connections I was making based 179 00:10:10,069 --> 00:10:06,949 on the evidence I presented and 180 00:10:12,049 --> 00:10:10,079 contacted me regarding possibly 181 00:10:14,900 --> 00:10:12,059 producing a show with them 182 00:10:18,199 --> 00:10:14,910 you know about that same connection 183 00:10:22,460 --> 00:10:18,209 whether HH Holmes was Jack the Ripper 184 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:22,470 and over oh I imagine we we negotiated 185 00:10:29,239 --> 00:10:25,410 for almost a year and then production 186 00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:29,249 was almost another year so as TV is it 187 00:10:33,499 --> 00:10:31,230 was it was quite a period of time before 188 00:10:43,790 --> 00:10:33,509 that first episode came out on American 189 00:10:46,009 --> 00:10:43,800 Ripper so I guess at this point we can 190 00:10:47,989 --> 00:10:46,019 either go well we start with Holmes when 191 00:10:52,579 --> 00:10:47,999 did he when did he first kill when did 192 00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:52,589 he first start killing people you know 193 00:10:57,169 --> 00:10:54,360 that's a subject that still opened into 194 00:10:59,929 --> 00:10:57,179 Bay Kevin I've never seen any direct 195 00:11:02,090 --> 00:10:59,939 evidence regarding his first murder I 196 00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:02,100 have my theories I know history 197 00:11:07,790 --> 00:11:05,220 presented evidence I think my co-host 198 00:11:11,179 --> 00:11:07,800 amaryllis box worked that scene mostly 199 00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:11,189 it was they believe when he was a young 200 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:13,649 boy living in Gilmanton New Hampshire 201 00:11:21,319 --> 00:11:17,490 there were some townspeople that had 202 00:11:24,110 --> 00:11:21,329 long researched that evidence that the 203 00:11:27,019 --> 00:11:24,120 murder of his cousin had occurred behind 204 00:11:29,090 --> 00:11:27,029 their house in a small creek and we 205 00:11:30,139 --> 00:11:29,100 actually ran that down I think it's best 206 00:11:33,319 --> 00:11:30,149 we could 207 00:11:35,629 --> 00:11:33,329 like I say without coming up with direct 208 00:11:39,139 --> 00:11:35,639 evidence as in fingerprints or blood 209 00:11:41,119 --> 00:11:39,149 types or weapons things like that but I 210 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:41,129 don't think it's that much of a stretch 211 00:11:50,919 --> 00:11:47,970 to tie those pieces of coincidence 212 00:11:54,169 --> 00:11:50,929 together in circumstantial evidence to 213 00:11:58,879 --> 00:11:54,179 state that it's a it's probably true 214 00:12:00,919 --> 00:11:58,889 that he killed at a young age yeah you 215 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:00,929 know and and like you say like even 216 00:12:06,990 --> 00:12:03,290 though a lot of circumstantial evidence 217 00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:07,000 it's still evidence I mean you know 218 00:12:10,590 --> 00:12:08,740 physical evidence and you have 219 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:10,600 documentary evidence and you have 220 00:12:16,530 --> 00:12:12,930 circumstantial evidence and even without 221 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:16,540 the I guess what would you call it The 222 00:12:22,650 --> 00:12:19,450 Smoking Gun of the physical evidence you 223 00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:22,660 can still put a puzzle together you know 224 00:12:27,300 --> 00:12:25,529 with with if you get if you have enough 225 00:12:30,540 --> 00:12:27,310 documentary evidence and enough 226 00:12:33,260 --> 00:12:30,550 circumstantial evidence to put that 227 00:12:36,030 --> 00:12:33,270 puzzle together and see enough of it to 228 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:36,040 you know read the writing on the wall so 229 00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:38,050 to speak right well it's tricky about 230 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:40,240 that then too is well you had a lot of 231 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:41,529 the stuff that would have happened like 232 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:43,510 for instance the family member that he 233 00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:45,210 just mentioned that was the cousin 234 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:48,790 around that time people didn't keep 235 00:12:54,690 --> 00:12:52,450 enough accurate records right and they 236 00:12:56,730 --> 00:12:54,700 said that there was like all the deaths 237 00:12:58,620 --> 00:12:56,740 for instance weren't reported that yeah 238 00:13:01,740 --> 00:12:58,630 right so I mean they only know some and 239 00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:01,750 for a town of that small size in that 240 00:13:09,210 --> 00:13:04,020 part of American history to have so many 241 00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:09,220 unsolved deaths so close to young mr. 242 00:13:16,020 --> 00:13:12,880 Holmes I thought was was pretty on 243 00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:16,030 kianak myself no I think I think you're 244 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:18,160 both right on the money and when we were 245 00:13:22,950 --> 00:13:20,410 doing our research regarding Ripper s 246 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:22,960 style killings in Chicago using the 247 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:24,810 archives from the city with you know 248 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:28,330 detectives trained detectives over and 249 00:13:35,780 --> 00:13:31,210 over again we came across people that 250 00:13:38,910 --> 00:13:35,790 the police had simply listed as missing 251 00:13:41,579 --> 00:13:38,920 despite having had relationships or 252 00:13:44,610 --> 00:13:41,589 contact with HH Holmes and and and 253 00:13:47,190 --> 00:13:44,620 that's what we continued to find during 254 00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:47,200 the production of the show and our 255 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:50,040 investigation was that you know we have 256 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:53,290 the records are tough the history is old 257 00:13:59,150 --> 00:13:55,930 and then we're dealing with probably the 258 00:14:02,310 --> 00:13:59,160 most skilled of men theatres at 259 00:14:04,980 --> 00:14:02,320 eliminating evidence and human remains 260 00:14:08,070 --> 00:14:04,990 after a murder that may be command kind 261 00:14:10,590 --> 00:14:08,080 has ever experienced that's that's what 262 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:10,600 Holmes was is the man was a doctor he 263 00:14:16,050 --> 00:14:13,240 was a chemist he was a pharmacist he 264 00:14:18,690 --> 00:14:16,060 knew how to eliminate evidence and 265 00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:18,700 create alibis putting him somewhere 266 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:19,260 other 267 00:14:23,780 --> 00:14:21,930 than a murder scene and when you run up 268 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:23,790 against that type of intellect and he 269 00:14:26,020 --> 00:14:25,410 was an incredible intellect an evil 270 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:26,030 genius 271 00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:29,490 with the training to eliminate the 272 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:32,880 evidence police and history needs to 273 00:14:38,450 --> 00:14:35,970 conclusively prove a murder not just 274 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:38,460 hundreds that's that's what we ran up 275 00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:41,370 against time and time again and which 276 00:14:46,670 --> 00:14:43,620 still causes debate today among 277 00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:46,680 historians pertaining to how many people 278 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:52,230 homes actually murdered yeah New York 279 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:54,810 and company is the best kept secret for 280 00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:57,930 great fashion at amazing prices the new 281 00:15:01,940 --> 00:15:00,000 holiday collection has arrived in this 282 00:15:05,660 --> 00:15:01,950 weekend is the friends-and-family sale 283 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:05,670 every single thing 50% off from holiday 284 00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:08,130 party outfits that sparkle to hundreds 285 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:11,100 of spectacular gifts starting at $5 they 286 00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:13,290 have something for everyone including 287 00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:15,180 new arrivals from their exclusive 288 00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:17,160 celebrity brands from Ava Mendes and 289 00:15:21,770 --> 00:15:19,830 Gabrielle Union hurry and check out the 290 00:15:23,930 --> 00:15:21,780 best deals of the year from New York and 291 00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:23,940 company and if you look at the way he 292 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:26,160 was my young age from what I remember 293 00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:28,650 from reading the book is he started 294 00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:31,440 experimenting and studying in avid the 295 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:35,880 anatomy of corpses very young age know 296 00:15:40,250 --> 00:15:37,770 when when other goods when other boys 297 00:15:43,550 --> 00:15:40,260 were out hunting deer he was where he 298 00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:43,560 was working with a physician with 299 00:15:51,770 --> 00:15:46,800 cadavers that his his fascination 300 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:51,780 started very very young so so as he 301 00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:53,850 grown-up it's possible he murdered 302 00:16:03,220 --> 00:15:56,240 people then he then he became a doctor 303 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:03,230 right and I remember watching the show 304 00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,210 if I remember right he had bought the 305 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:09,360 property for the murder castle right but 306 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:11,490 it wasn't completely built until he 307 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:14,690 returned from London is that correct 308 00:16:23,510 --> 00:16:18,290 well that's the the Whitechapel murders 309 00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:23,520 occurred in 1888 and as best we could 310 00:16:29,060 --> 00:16:27,360 determine I think the property for the 311 00:16:31,580 --> 00:16:29,070 murder castle was built the summer 312 00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:31,590 before those murders and construction 313 00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:32,880 started the 314 00:16:37,940 --> 00:16:35,310 year after because there was a there was 315 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:37,950 a horrible winter that year when he 316 00:16:42,260 --> 00:16:40,530 returned from London and I would have 317 00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:42,270 imagined construction would have been 318 00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:44,880 impossible during that time and I know 319 00:16:50,140 --> 00:16:47,190 it went on for a period of a year or two 320 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:50,150 before the building was in operation 321 00:17:00,140 --> 00:16:55,290 which he had always believed was the 322 00:17:02,540 --> 00:17:00,150 perfect factory for death to have when 323 00:17:04,610 --> 00:17:02,550 the exposition came to Chicago the 324 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:04,620 World's Fair because we're talking about 325 00:17:11,780 --> 00:17:08,250 his little hotel with basement two miles 326 00:17:14,329 --> 00:17:11,790 down the railway line from maybe the 327 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:14,339 biggest gathering of human beings in the 328 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:15,930 history of man I mean there were 20 329 00:17:20,929 --> 00:17:18,810 million people there you had so many 330 00:17:24,020 --> 00:17:20,939 people there the Chicago Police were 331 00:17:25,790 --> 00:17:24,030 overrun they couldn't keep track of the 332 00:17:27,890 --> 00:17:25,800 number of crimes of the number of 333 00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:27,900 missing people of the number of murders 334 00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:31,200 and Holmes knew that was coming to his 335 00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:34,590 back backyard and he prepared for with 336 00:17:43,060 --> 00:17:38,640 with perhaps the most well I don't want 337 00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:43,070 to say famous but infamous building for 338 00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:47,160 premeditated murder that you know a man 339 00:17:54,020 --> 00:17:50,960 like him had maybe ever thought of 340 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,030 engineered and finally created I call 341 00:17:58,660 --> 00:17:56,640 him the American Frankenstein and I try 342 00:18:01,940 --> 00:17:58,670 to have people understand that concept 343 00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:01,950 when they want to believe or understand 344 00:18:09,170 --> 00:18:05,910 what Holmes really was yeah because I 345 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:09,180 noted - I noticed - like the time period 346 00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:12,690 that he abruptly left Chicago and the 347 00:18:16,820 --> 00:18:14,670 Ripper killings happened as you just 348 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:16,830 stated what was interesting to me was 349 00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:19,710 they had the ship's manifest log of 350 00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:22,830 passengers like I couldn't believe how 351 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:28,020 many aliases used you know and that was 352 00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:35,730 and it was a funny yes sorry no that was 353 00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:38,640 that was I'm sorry again that was one of 354 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:41,520 the most amazing parts of the show for 355 00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:45,210 me and those were the creative people in 356 00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:46,440 history working with 357 00:18:51,889 --> 00:18:49,500 marilla's Fox my my co-host she took 358 00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:51,899 over that scene regarding the passenger 359 00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:54,720 lists and trying to nail down 360 00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,840 Holmes's is either his signature or his 361 00:19:03,049 --> 00:19:00,240 alibi on those lists going from New York 362 00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:03,059 to London and in my opinion they did a 363 00:19:06,919 --> 00:19:05,039 great job doing that because that's a 364 00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:06,929 that's a question that had plagued me 365 00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:10,080 for years whenever I went on shows like 366 00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:13,350 yours or you know the other television 367 00:19:18,049 --> 00:19:15,809 shows that I've done I was always asked 368 00:19:20,659 --> 00:19:18,059 can you show Holmes his name on a 369 00:19:22,850 --> 00:19:20,669 passenger list from a ship from London 370 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:22,860 into New York and you know while I would 371 00:19:28,039 --> 00:19:26,129 continually argue with with those those 372 00:19:29,690 --> 00:19:28,049 historians demanding that evidence say 373 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:29,700 here's a man that had 31 different 374 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:33,210 aliases he was the master of alibis he 375 00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:35,610 had lawyers he had notaries that could 376 00:19:40,999 --> 00:19:38,820 place him incorrectly anywhere in the 377 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:41,009 country when he needed to be somewhere 378 00:19:46,580 --> 00:19:44,370 else so when history and amaryllis came 379 00:19:46,999 --> 00:19:46,590 up with those names on that passenger 380 00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,009 list 381 00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:49,440 I knew they'd struck gold that was 382 00:19:54,980 --> 00:19:52,500 amazing evidence well I think one of the 383 00:19:58,159 --> 00:19:54,990 obvious aliases that that was pointed 384 00:19:59,600 --> 00:19:58,169 out was the fact that he used home yeah 385 00:20:02,210 --> 00:19:59,610 you actually use even though he had 386 00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:02,220 oatmeal he says he even used home well 387 00:20:05,419 --> 00:20:04,080 which is probably most famous yes right 388 00:20:07,820 --> 00:20:05,429 cuz that even Holmes was a Eliot's 389 00:20:12,129 --> 00:20:10,249 that was the name he selected is you 390 00:20:16,909 --> 00:20:12,139 know his name was Herman Webster Mudgett 391 00:20:21,499 --> 00:20:16,919 right so I have the question for you 392 00:20:24,409 --> 00:20:21,509 from the chat room all right are you 393 00:20:27,639 --> 00:20:24,419 aware of the psychologist James Fallon 394 00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:27,649 he is a sciences to study psychology and 395 00:20:33,610 --> 00:20:30,600 found out he is related to the Lizzie 396 00:20:37,549 --> 00:20:33,620 Borden family this led to interesting 397 00:20:41,149 --> 00:20:37,559 scientific insights a follow-up question 398 00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:41,159 is there a family history that ties into 399 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:46,500 Holmes's personality my answer to the 400 00:20:51,230 --> 00:20:48,450 first question is no I'm not aware of a 401 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:51,240 mr. dr. Fallon I'd certainly like to 402 00:20:55,580 --> 00:20:53,850 read some of his work regarding Lizzie 403 00:20:58,810 --> 00:20:55,590 Borden there are there are many 404 00:21:00,290 --> 00:20:58,820 historians who contact me quite often 405 00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:00,300 regarding a 406 00:21:06,530 --> 00:21:02,880 a potential connection between Holmes 407 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:06,540 and her I've never studied it or tried 408 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:09,810 to research it diligently so that that 409 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:12,210 would interest me greatly if if that if 410 00:21:16,910 --> 00:21:14,730 that member of your chatroom wants to 411 00:21:19,820 --> 00:21:16,920 provide me with that information as far 412 00:21:22,810 --> 00:21:19,830 as the second question Holmes his mother 413 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:22,820 and father were fine American citizens 414 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:27,210 his descendants as far as my grandfather 415 00:21:33,020 --> 00:21:30,690 my father you know none of us were ever 416 00:21:35,930 --> 00:21:33,030 even convicted for jaywalking let alone 417 00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:35,940 murder and if you go back far enough 418 00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,630 along the mud line you come up to heroes 419 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:41,760 of the American Revolution you know 420 00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:43,650 which history actually did a story about 421 00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:47,460 once about the Mudgett back then so no 422 00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:50,720 the answer to that question is Holmes 423 00:21:56,990 --> 00:21:54,000 and quite frankly I'm proud of that fact 424 00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:57,000 I think I think much of medical science 425 00:22:04,550 --> 00:22:00,240 has been made about the passing on of 426 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:04,560 evil genes and I think my family is the 427 00:22:10,370 --> 00:22:07,650 living example of why that's not true 428 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:10,380 this brilliant man who could have been a 429 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:14,490 Louis Pasteur in my opinion decided that 430 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:18,330 he liked money and women more than the 431 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:20,250 notoriety his intellect could have given 432 00:22:27,980 --> 00:22:23,490 him solving or curing cancer say and 433 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:27,990 that that selection on his part is is 434 00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:31,290 the choice that we all have when we when 435 00:22:39,710 --> 00:22:34,440 we live on earth and decide what we want 436 00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:39,720 to do with our lives so with all the 437 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:41,760 stuff that was looked at while you guys 438 00:22:48,380 --> 00:22:45,330 were in London and and or anything that 439 00:22:51,860 --> 00:22:48,390 to come since what do you think is the 440 00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:51,870 most compelling evidence that Jack the 441 00:22:57,050 --> 00:22:55,470 Ripper is HH Holmes thought of all this 442 00:22:58,820 --> 00:22:57,060 because there's a lot of stuff I mean 443 00:23:00,860 --> 00:22:58,830 there's actually a lot I mean the amount 444 00:23:03,290 --> 00:23:00,870 of circumstantial evidence is crazy I 445 00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:03,300 mean it's it's really that much people 446 00:23:06,890 --> 00:23:05,190 realize how much there is I mean just 447 00:23:09,730 --> 00:23:06,900 all these little ties and this and that 448 00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:14,289 so yeah can you let us know you know it 449 00:23:19,810 --> 00:23:17,630 and and I'd love to answer your question 450 00:23:23,139 --> 00:23:19,820 but before I do I'd like to let you all 451 00:23:25,450 --> 00:23:23,149 know in my opinion this mystery solved 452 00:23:26,169 --> 00:23:25,460 this case is closed this is what I did 453 00:23:28,899 --> 00:23:26,179 for a living 454 00:23:32,590 --> 00:23:28,909 HH Holmes is Jack the Ripper if if he 455 00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:32,600 was alive today I could assist English 456 00:23:38,529 --> 00:23:35,750 prosecutors in having a warrant for his 457 00:23:41,169 --> 00:23:38,539 arrest issued I could get an order for 458 00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:41,179 extradition across the Atlantic and he 459 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:42,529 would have to stand trial for the 460 00:23:46,990 --> 00:23:44,090 murders of Katherine Eddowes and 461 00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:47,000 Elizabeth stride and that to me there's 462 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:48,980 no doubt of and I've issued that 463 00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:52,130 challenge to you know historians around 464 00:23:56,769 --> 00:23:54,080 the world especially London that I'll 465 00:23:58,750 --> 00:23:56,779 stand up on stage with any of them if 466 00:24:00,850 --> 00:23:58,760 they want to put one of their suspects 467 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:00,860 up against Holmes and we'll compare them 468 00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:03,770 bullet point by bullet point evidence by 469 00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:05,960 evidence and none of them will even come 470 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:09,440 close to home so I'm I don't want you to 471 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:11,570 think that's what I believe or my theory 472 00:24:16,450 --> 00:24:14,570 I know I've solved this case now now 473 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:16,460 it's now as far as your question goes 474 00:24:21,399 --> 00:24:18,260 and you've got to give me a little bit 475 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:21,409 of leeway on this this would it be a 476 00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:23,690 murder trial all right we're talking 477 00:24:29,769 --> 00:24:27,080 days for a prosecution to prove his case 478 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:29,779 it's not done in a period of minutes so 479 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:33,049 when you know I try to go through the 480 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:35,090 mountain of circumstantial evidence that 481 00:24:42,450 --> 00:24:37,010 we have tying homes to the Ripper 482 00:24:46,210 --> 00:24:42,460 murders the the handwriting analysis the 483 00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:46,220 the opinions of the experts in London 484 00:24:50,649 --> 00:24:48,559 stating that the dear boss letter had 485 00:24:53,850 --> 00:24:50,659 been written by an American trying to 486 00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:53,860 sound English that the eyewitness 487 00:24:59,470 --> 00:24:56,960 testimonies the profiles that have been 488 00:25:01,169 --> 00:24:59,480 put together by Professor professionals 489 00:25:04,060 --> 00:25:01,179 you know forensic scientists 490 00:25:06,669 --> 00:25:04,070 establishing a similarity of ID and 491 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:06,679 identity and appearance 492 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:10,690 I like the evidence when Scotland Yard 493 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:13,370 followed Holmes back across the Atlantic 494 00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:17,450 to research Ripper s style killings in 495 00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:21,230 in New York City and then perhaps the 496 00:25:26,650 --> 00:25:23,510 most amazing evidence to me a 497 00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:26,660 besides the passenger list that Jennifer 498 00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:30,200 mentioned earlier are the Ripper murders 499 00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:34,280 in Chicago when Holmes was there and how 500 00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:37,520 they abruptly stopped and start up again 501 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:40,400 when you put them around the timeline of 502 00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:42,770 the Whitechapel murders that to me is an 503 00:25:51,220 --> 00:25:45,350 amazing piece of evidence and vice-versa 504 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:51,230 yeah I think one of the most one of the 505 00:25:55,230 --> 00:25:53,090 most things that that shocked me when we 506 00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:55,240 were watching this whole entire series 507 00:26:01,870 --> 00:25:58,250 was when you guys had went to a home 508 00:26:04,750 --> 00:26:01,880 where people had personal items that 509 00:26:07,450 --> 00:26:04,760 belonged home and in one of the one of 510 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:07,460 the boxes pulls out a photo of one of 511 00:26:14,830 --> 00:26:12,890 the Ripper victims that was that was a 512 00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:14,840 couple of friends of mine from Irvington 513 00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:18,260 Indiana and I'll explain to you how that 514 00:26:22,690 --> 00:26:20,840 went because that that you know I left 515 00:26:24,970 --> 00:26:22,700 that out when when I was answering 516 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:24,980 Kevin's question about what struck me 517 00:26:34,030 --> 00:26:28,730 the most because we were we were in a in 518 00:26:36,490 --> 00:26:34,040 a room in Indiana we had the film crew 519 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:36,500 around amaryllis and I audio teams 520 00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:42,170 around us and then Allen and Tricia hunt 521 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:44,720 came in with their box of artifacts and 522 00:26:51,070 --> 00:26:48,650 I had never seen them before and the 523 00:26:54,490 --> 00:26:51,080 filming was on all right so the box was 524 00:26:57,790 --> 00:26:54,500 opened up they were the director wanted 525 00:27:00,490 --> 00:26:57,800 our accurate you know looks on our faces 526 00:27:03,340 --> 00:27:00,500 as we saw this evidence and and they 527 00:27:05,710 --> 00:27:03,350 started explaining to us the knives 528 00:27:09,550 --> 00:27:05,720 Holmes's knives that he had bought in 529 00:27:12,550 --> 00:27:09,560 London and then original photographs of 530 00:27:15,610 --> 00:27:12,560 some of his of his assistants like Pat 531 00:27:17,770 --> 00:27:15,620 Quinlan and then lo and behold there's a 532 00:27:20,590 --> 00:27:17,780 there's a small tintype an amaryllis 533 00:27:23,470 --> 00:27:20,600 grabs it and says that looks very very 534 00:27:25,870 --> 00:27:23,480 familiar hands it to me and I say you 535 00:27:29,740 --> 00:27:25,880 know that looks like Elizabeth stride 536 00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:29,750 one of the Ripper victims so amaryllis 537 00:27:35,380 --> 00:27:32,720 grabbed it back and we proceeded to take 538 00:27:37,270 --> 00:27:35,390 it to a professional profiler who 539 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:37,280 studied the tintype as well as the 540 00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:39,410 could it's a very small picture and he 541 00:27:43,630 --> 00:27:42,080 came up with a very high number and 542 00:27:45,460 --> 00:27:43,640 that's that's how they do their business 543 00:27:48,370 --> 00:27:45,470 they come up with a number regarding 544 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:48,380 similarities he came up with a very high 545 00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:50,450 number establishing that the tintype 546 00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:53,840 probably was Elizabeth stride one of the 547 00:28:01,060 --> 00:27:55,430 Ripper victims and had it been in 548 00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:01,070 Holmes's possession Wow right Wow and I 549 00:28:07,810 --> 00:28:05,120 just wanted to to say the reason I ask 550 00:28:10,090 --> 00:28:07,820 these questions is so that the people 551 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:10,100 listening can hear just how much is out 552 00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:13,970 there you know because and personally I 553 00:28:20,170 --> 00:28:18,080 believe that the Holmes was Jack the 554 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:20,180 Ripper Oh totally there's no question 555 00:28:25,930 --> 00:28:22,930 about it I mean you can only deny 556 00:28:31,810 --> 00:28:25,940 evidence so much evidence what would you 557 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:31,820 you know what sorry I'm bi apologize no 558 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:35,510 I apologize I didn't mean to cut you off 559 00:28:39,970 --> 00:28:38,330 I just know and I well I wanted to tell 560 00:28:42,370 --> 00:28:39,980 you and what most people for your 561 00:28:45,460 --> 00:28:42,380 listeners they don't understand and I 562 00:28:48,190 --> 00:28:45,470 hope they appreciate is that no author 563 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:48,200 has ever been had their work scrutinized 564 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:51,050 at the level I have I had History 565 00:28:56,790 --> 00:28:53,650 Channel with their teams of experts 566 00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:56,800 going over every piece of evidence 567 00:29:02,710 --> 00:28:59,600 supporting my theory with a magnifying 568 00:29:05,050 --> 00:29:02,720 glass and a fine-tooth comb if this was 569 00:29:07,870 --> 00:29:05,060 history's reputation at stake had they 570 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:07,880 found anything that was false misleading 571 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:10,970 or didn't work or carry the theory they 572 00:29:15,310 --> 00:29:13,130 would have closed the show down and know 573 00:29:18,100 --> 00:29:15,320 whether author has had that level of 574 00:29:20,050 --> 00:29:18,110 scrutiny and I'm quite proud that the 575 00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:20,060 show went on for eight episodes and you 576 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:23,360 know was put out over an the entire 577 00:29:29,250 --> 00:29:25,970 country in that last episode that we all 578 00:29:31,020 --> 00:29:29,260 watched set records for viewership 579 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:31,030 awesome Wow 580 00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:36,530 and it started keep going TM so we're 581 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:39,440 just about that point oh yeah okay so 582 00:29:43,570 --> 00:29:41,450 it's time for our first commercial break 583 00:29:45,730 --> 00:29:43,580 you are listening to para ver so 584 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:45,740 universe on the inception radio network 585 00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:53,020 welcome back to perversion universe on 586 00:29:56,380 --> 00:29:54,500 the exception radio network 587 00:30:00,580 --> 00:29:56,390 we're your host Kevin and Jennifer Malik 588 00:30:03,460 --> 00:30:00,590 and we are talking to Jeff budget about 589 00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:03,470 HH Holmes and Jack the Ripper and his 590 00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:06,559 book bloodstains but before we bring you 591 00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:08,750 back on we'd like to take a minute do 592 00:30:13,570 --> 00:30:10,640 you think everybody who is P reversal 593 00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:13,580 universe possible including graphics art 594 00:30:19,090 --> 00:30:17,000 designer Lawrence tamizha webmaster Joe 595 00:30:22,690 --> 00:30:19,100 champion music by Matt stens 596 00:30:24,940 --> 00:30:22,700 producer Mike MJ Lucas and of course New 597 00:30:28,510 --> 00:30:24,950 York and company is the best kept secret 598 00:30:30,610 --> 00:30:28,520 for great fashion at amazing prices the 599 00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:30,620 new Holiday Collection has arrived in 600 00:30:35,950 --> 00:30:32,000 this weekend is the friends-and-family 601 00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:35,960 sale every single thing 50% off from 602 00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:38,480 holiday party outfits that's sparkle to 603 00:30:42,669 --> 00:30:40,550 hundreds of spectacular gift starting at 604 00:30:44,980 --> 00:30:42,679 5 dollars they have something for 605 00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:44,990 everyone including new arrivals from 606 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:47,120 their exclusive celebrity brands from 607 00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:50,090 Ava Mendes and Gabrielle Union hurry and 608 00:30:53,650 --> 00:30:51,710 check out the best deals of the year 609 00:30:55,860 --> 00:30:53,660 from New York and company to God for 610 00:30:58,960 --> 00:30:55,870 granting us this wonderful show and 611 00:31:00,430 --> 00:30:58,970 opportunity here to be with you all this 612 00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:00,440 segment is brought to you by Lucas 613 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:03,230 wellness the UFO Wisconsin research team 614 00:31:13,060 --> 00:31:09,250 and the book trail of a sasquatch 615 00:31:14,890 --> 00:31:13,070 shamans journey we also have three 616 00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:14,900 personal universe life pages we're 617 00:31:19,510 --> 00:31:17,600 checking out and of course Jennifer's 618 00:31:22,750 --> 00:31:19,520 like page Jennifer Malik's they didn t 619 00:31:25,060 --> 00:31:22,760 monologist and of course the northern 620 00:31:28,180 --> 00:31:25,070 wisconsin parent mol society limited 621 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:28,190 like pink because of two group age it's 622 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:30,710 worth noting Lake monstrosity it's which 623 00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:32,090 is the largest group page on facebook 624 00:31:36,910 --> 00:31:35,000 for aquatic mysteries and ultimate 625 00:31:38,020 --> 00:31:36,920 conspiracies which is pretty much 626 00:31:40,210 --> 00:31:38,030 self-explanatory 627 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:40,220 if you have any questions for our guests 628 00:31:47,620 --> 00:31:45,410 go to iearn chat calm and go to our live 629 00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:47,630 iron chat room where you can post your 630 00:31:54,010 --> 00:31:50,390 questions and make comments and Jennifer 631 00:31:59,320 --> 00:31:54,020 will pass those along ok back to the 632 00:32:11,090 --> 00:32:06,919 awesome so I okay here we are 633 00:32:15,770 --> 00:32:11,100 ah now that we're back for the second 634 00:32:17,299 --> 00:32:15,780 part I figured one of the things I 635 00:32:23,390 --> 00:32:17,309 wanted to talk about for a little bit 636 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:23,400 was the whole trial of each age homes he 637 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:25,610 had well we when we left off we had 638 00:32:31,130 --> 00:32:29,370 actually you know what why we well you 639 00:32:33,169 --> 00:32:31,140 know we had the murder castle right we 640 00:32:34,490 --> 00:32:33,179 had the murder castle yes yeah well you 641 00:32:36,770 --> 00:32:34,500 know what I remember I wanted to discuss 642 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:36,780 before the hangings was the the women in 643 00:32:42,649 --> 00:32:38,730 homes life that lived with me at the 644 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:42,659 murder castle because uh he had 645 00:32:47,210 --> 00:32:44,850 different mistresses and wives correct 646 00:32:48,770 --> 00:32:47,220 and you'd figure some of them at least 647 00:32:50,570 --> 00:32:48,780 would have been out and what he's got 648 00:32:53,899 --> 00:32:50,580 going on can you talk a little bit about 649 00:32:57,230 --> 00:32:53,909 that no I think you've hit on one of the 650 00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,240 great untold portions of the story 651 00:33:03,049 --> 00:32:59,760 history and and many authors have 652 00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:03,059 written that these were innocent young 653 00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:06,240 women who were duped by the master 654 00:33:13,940 --> 00:33:09,510 manipulator and in my opinion that's 655 00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:13,950 totally false most of these women were 656 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:16,559 very smart very intelligent they knew 657 00:33:22,610 --> 00:33:19,650 what Holmes was they knew who he was 658 00:33:25,730 --> 00:33:22,620 they also knew he had women on the side 659 00:33:28,130 --> 00:33:25,740 of them and they still stuck with him 660 00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:28,140 even going so far as to help him with 661 00:33:33,770 --> 00:33:30,809 his cons and frauds and one of the 662 00:33:35,899 --> 00:33:33,780 disappointing parts about history 663 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:35,909 deciding not to run the second season 664 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:38,130 for me was the director and I had 665 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:40,890 decided that that second season would 666 00:33:46,669 --> 00:33:43,530 emphasize many of the wives and 667 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:46,679 mistresses in Holmes's life and that 668 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:50,250 part of the story which you know I if I 669 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:52,530 write a sequel to bloodstains it's going 670 00:34:01,010 --> 00:33:57,330 to be about the women in his life that's 671 00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:01,020 interesting because we better at some 672 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:03,350 point we're gonna ask you on a second 673 00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:05,770 and 674 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:07,809 yeah that would be that would be quite 675 00:34:16,909 --> 00:34:11,290 interesting why don't we start off with 676 00:34:24,619 --> 00:34:16,919 the new information that he has okay I 677 00:34:32,609 --> 00:34:28,530 okay go ahead I'm sorry you know it's um 678 00:34:36,419 --> 00:34:32,619 one of the most fascinating portions of 679 00:34:40,379 --> 00:34:36,429 American Ripper to me was the exhumation 680 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:40,389 at the end of the show when we had spent 681 00:34:45,180 --> 00:34:42,490 you know almost a year obtaining 682 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:45,190 permission from my family from the 683 00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:48,810 Catholic Church from the court rooms the 684 00:34:56,940 --> 00:34:52,720 courthouse in in Pennsylvania from the 685 00:35:00,140 --> 00:34:56,950 judge allowing us to dig him up from 686 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:00,150 gathering may be the greatest team of 687 00:35:05,850 --> 00:35:02,650 anthropologists archaeologists forensic 688 00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:05,860 scientists you know engine geological 689 00:35:12,540 --> 00:35:09,070 engineers ever put into one place for 690 00:35:19,820 --> 00:35:12,550 this big and then having it filmed by 691 00:35:24,420 --> 00:35:19,830 history and then that excuse me 692 00:35:27,810 --> 00:35:24,430 no we're listening continue oh okay and 693 00:35:32,730 --> 00:35:27,820 then attempting to identify who it was 694 00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:32,740 we had exhumed based on my theories that 695 00:35:38,430 --> 00:35:34,990 there was a chance that Holmes had 696 00:35:42,330 --> 00:35:38,440 escaped his own execution and switched a 697 00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:42,340 body into that particular grave and then 698 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:45,700 gone on to commit further murders under 699 00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:50,530 another name and I'd fascinated over 700 00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:54,609 that possibility for years and when 701 00:35:58,890 --> 00:35:56,800 history told me they were going to help 702 00:36:03,270 --> 00:35:58,900 me with that they were going to fund the 703 00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:03,280 X you know the enterprise I was that was 704 00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:07,180 a dream come true so when you and your 705 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:09,520 viewers were watching that final episode 706 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:11,970 it pretty much emphasized that 707 00:36:19,410 --> 00:36:18,130 exhumation and while we were under the 708 00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:19,420 gun as far as 709 00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:22,510 reducing that final episode to be run in 710 00:36:27,710 --> 00:36:24,839 the timeslot that history had allowed us 711 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:27,720 we we didn't have the chance to 712 00:36:34,289 --> 00:36:30,970 carefully consider much of the evidence 713 00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:34,299 regarding who it really was and over 714 00:36:40,349 --> 00:36:37,540 these last two or three weeks I've come 715 00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:40,359 up with new evidence regarding identity 716 00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:43,119 and I've been trying to put it on my 717 00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:45,040 bloodstains Facebook page 718 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:46,630 that's what I asked you to look at 719 00:36:54,930 --> 00:36:49,210 Jennifer before the show yes and we did 720 00:36:58,710 --> 00:36:54,940 oh we did yeah and so when we when we 721 00:37:01,079 --> 00:36:58,720 discuss the exhumation we have when the 722 00:37:06,299 --> 00:37:01,089 scientists would go through we took a 723 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:06,309 DNA extract from the skeletal remains we 724 00:37:11,579 --> 00:37:08,410 measured the height of the skeleton 725 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:11,589 based on Holmes's height while he was 726 00:37:18,569 --> 00:37:15,970 living we examined the vertebra to 727 00:37:22,109 --> 00:37:18,579 determine if there was any trauma from 728 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:22,119 you know the violent hanging that a drop 729 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:23,770 through the scaffolding would have been 730 00:37:30,839 --> 00:37:26,890 at the prison for an execution right and 731 00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:30,849 then to compare the teeth from the 732 00:37:37,380 --> 00:37:34,510 skeleton with supposed records of 733 00:37:40,170 --> 00:37:37,390 Holmes's dental condition while he was 734 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:40,180 alive so you can see it's quite involved 735 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:43,450 and it involves a number of different 736 00:37:47,819 --> 00:37:45,010 scientists to come up with the 737 00:37:51,210 --> 00:37:47,829 conclusion and at this point I'm ready 738 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:51,220 to stayed on your show that the DNA 739 00:37:57,089 --> 00:37:53,650 didn't match there were no dental 740 00:38:00,299 --> 00:37:57,099 records of Holmes the height of the 741 00:38:02,549 --> 00:38:00,309 skeleton was significantly less than 742 00:38:05,099 --> 00:38:02,559 Holmes when he was measured when he was 743 00:38:08,579 --> 00:38:05,109 alive and there was no evidence of 744 00:38:10,859 --> 00:38:08,589 trauma to the neck so under those 745 00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:10,869 circumstances and with that evidence I 746 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:14,049 can conclude now that the body we dug up 747 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:16,450 and the remains we removed from that 748 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:19,890 grave was not HH Holmes 749 00:38:26,220 --> 00:38:23,890 now that's compelling because when a 750 00:38:29,130 --> 00:38:26,230 body is on when the body gets hung and 751 00:38:30,829 --> 00:38:29,140 it's dropped the neck breaks and you 752 00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:30,839 know that's a lot of weight that goes on 753 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:33,310 you know I'd only take 6 pounds 754 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:35,050 human or six pounds of pressure to break 755 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:37,570 a human bone the body weighs how much so 756 00:38:41,820 --> 00:38:39,370 when it comes down and it's all in the 757 00:38:44,370 --> 00:38:41,830 neck there's gonna damage yeah that'll 758 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:44,380 blow I mean an plus like you said the 759 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:46,330 height different height difference like 760 00:38:54,270 --> 00:38:51,490 you know when when I watched your 761 00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:54,280 lecture in Chicago then you were talking 762 00:39:00,510 --> 00:38:57,310 about the trial and could have been 763 00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:00,520 impossible for him to be slopped with 764 00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:02,560 someone else because there was a thing 765 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:06,250 over his head when he was hung and I had 766 00:39:11,370 --> 00:39:08,530 one question and I don't know if anyone 767 00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:11,380 else is I asked this of you it's um I 768 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:15,040 kept coming back who was uh was there 769 00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:17,130 any evidence that was missed onic 770 00:39:23,070 --> 00:39:20,560 because if he was then the escape would 771 00:39:24,810 --> 00:39:23,080 have been possible without that 772 00:39:29,220 --> 00:39:24,820 connection however it becomes much 773 00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:29,230 harder to FanDuel it's a great question 774 00:39:35,310 --> 00:39:32,800 you ask and there are quite a few noted 775 00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:35,320 historians who have contacted me 776 00:39:43,290 --> 00:39:38,950 regarding Holmes's membership as a Mason 777 00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:43,300 and the the people that were involved in 778 00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:47,440 the alleged execution and barrel burial 779 00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:50,380 who were also Mason's and I gotta tell 780 00:39:58,290 --> 00:39:53,280 you I'm not I'm not an expert on Masonic 781 00:39:59,790 --> 00:39:58,300 principles or their tactics but the 782 00:40:01,470 --> 00:39:59,800 question like I say the question you 783 00:40:03,570 --> 00:40:01,480 raised is very interesting because it's 784 00:40:08,010 --> 00:40:03,580 not the first time it's come up about 785 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:08,020 Holmes's membership in that group well 786 00:40:12,090 --> 00:40:09,730 you know Jennifer mentioned to me that 787 00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:12,100 the murder castle had a black and white 788 00:40:19,380 --> 00:40:16,000 checkered floor and I'm a conspiracy 789 00:40:20,940 --> 00:40:19,390 Alice and I study conspiracies and so 790 00:40:23,850 --> 00:40:20,950 you know to me little things like that 791 00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:23,860 of course anybody who doesn't know 792 00:40:28,890 --> 00:40:27,040 Masonic temples usually have the black 793 00:40:30,810 --> 00:40:28,900 and white checkered floor and the 794 00:40:31,950 --> 00:40:30,820 symbolism behind that is that one foot 795 00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:31,960 is in the light and one foot is in the 796 00:40:41,310 --> 00:40:38,040 dark which is just uh the neutrality 797 00:40:45,150 --> 00:40:41,320 believe when your doctor into the 798 00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:45,160 Masonic Order yeah it's not all evil and 799 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:46,380 sound look good 800 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:48,570 and then usually you know that's a whole 801 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:51,210 other topic amongst itself but yeah I 802 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:52,890 just thought that was interesting and 803 00:40:59,180 --> 00:40:54,450 that's um I wanted to ask you personally 804 00:41:00,830 --> 00:40:59,190 about so yeah that's uh because yeah 805 00:41:03,530 --> 00:41:00,840 without that connection I I can't even 806 00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:03,540 see it happening but you're talking 807 00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:05,310 about the most powerful men in the world 808 00:41:11,390 --> 00:41:08,640 and they do take care of and and money 809 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:11,400 talks as well and if I remember right at 810 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:13,650 the time a prisoner gonna have wealth 811 00:41:24,890 --> 00:41:20,130 back then so he had wealth correct it 812 00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:24,900 wealth well yeah money no homes was rich 813 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:27,510 while he was in prison he was paid by 814 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:29,730 the Hearst Corporation many thousands of 815 00:41:35,930 --> 00:41:32,370 dollars to write his memoirs awaiting 816 00:41:38,750 --> 00:41:35,940 his execution and quite frankly we were 817 00:41:42,530 --> 00:41:38,760 never able to establish what happened to 818 00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:42,540 that money except that he probably used 819 00:41:51,010 --> 00:41:45,630 it to buy to bribe or buy off the help 820 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:53,990 yeah cuz I remember from I remember too 821 00:41:57,350 --> 00:41:55,650 he was one of the only prisoners in the 822 00:42:01,580 --> 00:41:57,360 jail that actually had a desk a chair 823 00:42:04,310 --> 00:42:01,590 and oil man if I remember clearly you're 824 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:04,320 exactly right it was much when you know 825 00:42:09,410 --> 00:42:06,570 obviously Moyamensing prison has been 826 00:42:12,620 --> 00:42:09,420 torn down that was the the scene of the 827 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:12,630 execution incarceration so during 828 00:42:18,650 --> 00:42:14,970 American Ripper we went to another old 829 00:42:23,590 --> 00:42:18,660 prison in the Philadelphia area which 830 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:26,660 brilliant curator there that walked us 831 00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:29,250 through that the technics 832 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:31,110 the tactics techniques and the 833 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:33,570 procedures involved in incarceration at 834 00:42:40,430 --> 00:42:36,690 the time and she was familiar with how 835 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:40,440 special Holmes had been treated while he 836 00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:42,210 was in prison as you say he had a 837 00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:44,880 writing desk he didn't even have his 838 00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:47,640 cell door was never closed he he got to 839 00:42:52,330 --> 00:42:49,800 wear his own clothes whenever he wanted 840 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:52,340 to he could have visitors he could have 841 00:42:57,940 --> 00:42:54,570 reporters come in to interview him for 842 00:42:59,690 --> 00:42:57,950 talks she said it was quite unusual Wow 843 00:43:04,339 --> 00:42:59,700 yeah and this 844 00:43:06,740 --> 00:43:04,349 speaks volumes to me anyways I I think 845 00:43:08,990 --> 00:43:06,750 that's quite interesting can you run us 846 00:43:10,609 --> 00:43:09,000 through the chop to that through the 847 00:43:13,390 --> 00:43:10,619 trial of HH Holmes 848 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:13,400 and what led up to him getting captured 849 00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:23,859 well the theories are he was arrested in 850 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:32,310 st. Louis or some fraud and evidently at 851 00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:34,170 least as far as the other authors and 852 00:43:38,060 --> 00:43:36,000 historians want to state I've never 853 00:43:40,700 --> 00:43:38,070 quite believed this to tell you the 854 00:43:45,980 --> 00:43:40,710 truth but he talked too much to a 855 00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:45,990 cellmate who for a deal regarding his 856 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:48,720 own freedom told the authorities what 857 00:43:56,540 --> 00:43:51,450 Holmes had said about a number of 858 00:43:58,910 --> 00:43:56,550 murders who then followed Holmes across 859 00:44:01,339 --> 00:43:58,920 the country and eventually arrested him 860 00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:01,349 for the murder of Benjamin 861 00:44:05,569 --> 00:44:02,670 well they arrested him for a life 862 00:44:07,609 --> 00:44:05,579 insurance fraud and that charge was 863 00:44:10,430 --> 00:44:07,619 modified later for the murder of his 864 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:10,440 partner Benjamin Petzl which is what he 865 00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:12,810 stood trial for and and one of the 866 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:15,420 amazing parts of the story was Holmes 867 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:18,210 never actually stood trial for any of 868 00:44:24,099 --> 00:44:21,650 the murders he committed in Chicago 869 00:44:26,660 --> 00:44:24,109 right 870 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:26,670 that's crazy at the time to think 871 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:29,010 without the World's Fair and all the 872 00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:30,810 people that was there and we're talking 873 00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:35,760 he's like Millions you know look you 874 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:37,920 said that I mean if that's your 875 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:41,130 motivation you know - did he tell people 876 00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:43,170 and dissect and of course profit from a 877 00:44:49,609 --> 00:44:47,280 - what better place you know so it's it 878 00:44:51,140 --> 00:44:49,619 is weird that you know on one hand you 879 00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:51,150 didn't get caught because of the volume 880 00:44:55,930 --> 00:44:52,560 but on the other hand you see why 881 00:44:59,420 --> 00:44:55,940 because of the World's Fair at the time 882 00:45:04,569 --> 00:44:59,430 yeah and remember this was a brilliant 883 00:45:07,339 --> 00:45:04,579 man a very brilliant evil man who knew 884 00:45:10,849 --> 00:45:07,349 chemistry who knew medical science 885 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:10,859 he had a furnace in his basement with 886 00:45:13,370 --> 00:45:12,810 the gas line that could raise the 887 00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:13,380 temperature 888 00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:17,310 to be sufficient to reduce bones to dust 889 00:45:23,450 --> 00:45:20,880 he had acid pits in the basement he had 890 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:23,460 a glass factory in Chicago he had a 891 00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:25,650 cement factory along the Chicago River 892 00:45:32,180 --> 00:45:29,280 this and none of those companies sold 893 00:45:35,150 --> 00:45:32,190 product I think they were there to be 894 00:45:38,300 --> 00:45:35,160 used for homes as purposes in order to 895 00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:38,310 remove the evidence of murder so that he 896 00:45:43,970 --> 00:45:40,560 could claim insurance money or sell the 897 00:45:45,980 --> 00:45:43,980 skeletons as was his career most of his 898 00:45:48,590 --> 00:45:45,990 life that's how he paid for his tuition 899 00:45:51,770 --> 00:45:48,600 going to medical school with skeletons 900 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:51,780 robbing graves so you know this was 901 00:45:56,270 --> 00:45:53,610 that's what the authorities were up 902 00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:56,280 against during a time when hundreds of 903 00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:59,520 young ladies were going missing and like 904 00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:01,200 I said before the police were just 905 00:46:07,850 --> 00:46:05,310 overwhelmed yeah I guess would stunt me 906 00:46:10,490 --> 00:46:07,860 I would all think was just to read the 907 00:46:12,980 --> 00:46:10,500 layout of the murder castle like what he 908 00:46:14,690 --> 00:46:12,990 had hidden in walls and underneath like 909 00:46:18,110 --> 00:46:14,700 he was just talking like the gas 910 00:46:22,030 --> 00:46:18,120 chambers the shoots the fact that he had 911 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:22,040 asbestos purposely covering stuff so 912 00:46:28,310 --> 00:46:24,810 everything was soundproof I mean when I 913 00:46:30,590 --> 00:46:28,320 read that that just gave me chills you 914 00:46:32,450 --> 00:46:30,600 know and I can tell you and I can tell 915 00:46:36,100 --> 00:46:32,460 you and Kevin and your listeners we have 916 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:36,110 a Hollywood artist who is actually 917 00:46:42,050 --> 00:46:39,330 recreating a model of the murder castle 918 00:46:45,140 --> 00:46:42,060 along with the basement and all the trap 919 00:46:47,540 --> 00:46:45,150 doors so keep an eye on the bloodstains 920 00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:47,550 Facebook page matter of fact just go and 921 00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:49,710 click the follow button because in the 922 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:51,960 days in the in the next few days we'll 923 00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:55,050 be submitting to the page her pictures 924 00:47:00,830 --> 00:46:58,560 of the model of the actual murder castle 925 00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:00,840 and I think you you and your list your 926 00:47:06,590 --> 00:47:03,480 listeners are going to be astounded at 927 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:06,600 the level of detail that's going into 928 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:08,370 this model and what you'll get to see 929 00:47:16,070 --> 00:47:11,130 and and you'll get a feel about what it 930 00:47:21,010 --> 00:47:16,080 was really like back in 1890 Chicago Wow 931 00:47:25,090 --> 00:47:21,020 that reminds me um also going back to 932 00:47:26,850 --> 00:47:25,100 London and the river they said that 933 00:47:32,670 --> 00:47:26,860 Whitechapel back 934 00:47:36,330 --> 00:47:32,680 than in Chicago we're very similar dude 935 00:47:39,140 --> 00:47:36,340 as far as I did certain parts of Chicago 936 00:47:42,690 --> 00:47:39,150 being very similar to Whitechapel and 937 00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:42,700 was there ever uh did anyone ever figure 938 00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:47,440 out why exactly um home sweat to London 939 00:47:55,050 --> 00:47:50,710 for them that short period of time I was 940 00:47:58,050 --> 00:47:55,060 there he you know I have my theories 941 00:48:01,650 --> 00:47:58,060 about that Kevin it's never been you 942 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:01,660 know conclusively established London was 943 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:04,210 the center of knowledge of the entire 944 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:07,570 world at the time and especially medical 945 00:48:12,690 --> 00:48:10,450 science Holmes was fascinated with 946 00:48:15,810 --> 00:48:12,700 genetics he was fascinated with 947 00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:15,820 longevity he was fascinated with the 948 00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:18,960 business of selling you know 949 00:48:23,630 --> 00:48:21,460 articulating skeletons and then selling 950 00:48:30,060 --> 00:48:23,640 them to medical schools and universities 951 00:48:33,210 --> 00:48:30,070 I I believe his visits to London were to 952 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:33,220 meet with the experts of those subjects 953 00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:36,010 at the time I think he was fascinated 954 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:39,730 with the media fascination and the fear 955 00:48:44,850 --> 00:48:42,370 that was generated through the entire 956 00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:44,860 city by the first two Ripper murders I 957 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:48,160 think as part of his quote-unquote 958 00:48:55,830 --> 00:48:51,130 vacation he decided to write the dear 959 00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:55,840 boss letter and then further the frenzy 960 00:49:00,020 --> 00:48:58,210 that was occurring with the murder of 961 00:49:05,070 --> 00:49:00,030 Catherine Eddowes and Elizabeth stride 962 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:05,080 and I can tell you this come April in 963 00:49:10,620 --> 00:49:07,530 Chicago we're going to have an event 964 00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:10,630 that lasts the entire weekend where we 965 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:12,880 have a hundred members of our audience 966 00:49:19,350 --> 00:49:15,850 who are going to help us prove once and 967 00:49:21,420 --> 00:49:19,360 for all that dear boss and saucy Jack 968 00:49:23,820 --> 00:49:21,430 were not hopes as they were authentic 969 00:49:26,850 --> 00:49:23,830 letters written by the murderer of those 970 00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:26,860 two ladies that they matched they were 971 00:49:33,450 --> 00:49:29,710 written by the same hand and that they 972 00:49:35,610 --> 00:49:33,460 were written by HH Holmes and I'm quite 973 00:49:38,010 --> 00:49:35,620 excited about that because I'll have 974 00:49:40,350 --> 00:49:38,020 enough time for the first time you know 975 00:49:40,770 --> 00:49:40,360 when I gave my TED talk I had 18 minutes 976 00:49:43,290 --> 00:49:40,780 why 977 00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,300 when I go on shows like yours I have 30 978 00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:45,280 or 40 minutes to discuss homes being 979 00:49:51,260 --> 00:49:47,920 Jack the Ripper but for the first time 980 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:51,270 in April I'll have the full weekend with 981 00:49:57,810 --> 00:49:54,370 assistance to put the evidence up on 982 00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:57,820 screen and then let the audience who we 983 00:50:03,540 --> 00:50:00,640 will swear in as a grand jury decide 984 00:50:07,410 --> 00:50:03,550 once and for all if the Jack the Ripper 985 00:50:10,190 --> 00:50:07,420 case has been solved finally I like that 986 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:10,200 Wow that sounds like it's gonna be great 987 00:50:17,610 --> 00:50:13,570 right because I'd like I'd like to see 988 00:50:21,540 --> 00:50:17,620 you both there well we do live in a 989 00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:21,550 Midwest that's interesting we're gonna 990 00:50:27,290 --> 00:50:23,680 work if it's successful in Chicago we're 991 00:50:33,930 --> 00:50:30,420 yeah and that's like the best thing you 992 00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:33,940 could do right now I think because 993 00:50:39,540 --> 00:50:36,640 you're not gonna I mean like you said it 994 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:39,550 was scrutinized so much more heavy you 995 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:44,410 know them and you know if certain 996 00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:47,050 suspicions are true and it may continue 997 00:50:52,410 --> 00:50:49,990 to be that way so what can you do well 998 00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:52,420 take it to the people you know take it 999 00:50:56,970 --> 00:50:54,610 to the people let the people decide and 1000 00:50:57,450 --> 00:50:56,980 that's exactly what you're doing that's 1001 00:51:01,320 --> 00:50:57,460 pretty cool 1002 00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:01,330 oh I'm excited I'm excited about it 1003 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:03,520 because you know obviously working with 1004 00:51:07,470 --> 00:51:05,170 history and they're incredible people 1005 00:51:10,770 --> 00:51:07,480 but they had a television show to 1006 00:51:13,710 --> 00:51:10,780 produce and you know they had to fit it 1007 00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:13,720 into the time frame they had and the 1008 00:51:19,230 --> 00:51:16,960 advertising they had to procure to make 1009 00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:19,240 the whole thing work this this will be 1010 00:51:24,210 --> 00:51:22,480 my first chance to you know stand up on 1011 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:24,220 a stage and present the evidence as I 1012 00:51:29,070 --> 00:51:26,970 would back at work in California and 1013 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:29,080 that's I got to tell you I'm very 1014 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:32,890 excited about it and the list of people 1015 00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:36,970 that are already signed up to attend are 1016 00:51:42,810 --> 00:51:40,270 some of the best experts on homes and 1017 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:42,820 Ripper there are and it's going to be 1018 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:46,450 quite an event so with the last couple 1019 00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:48,850 of minutes I I kind of want to talk a 1020 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:51,280 little bit both about the homes curse 1021 00:51:56,999 --> 00:51:54,130 and just what and I work 1022 00:52:00,289 --> 00:51:57,009 just what happened after the trial just 1023 00:52:06,029 --> 00:52:00,299 kind of wrap up this show in a sense so 1024 00:52:12,359 --> 00:52:06,039 you'd escaped right and from that point 1025 00:52:16,019 --> 00:52:12,369 until his death what do we know about ya 1026 00:52:18,029 --> 00:52:16,029 the Holmes curse was wasn't an invention 1027 00:52:21,329 --> 00:52:18,039 of my own Kevin that was written about 1028 00:52:24,359 --> 00:52:21,339 by the New York Times in a newspaper 1029 00:52:29,130 --> 00:52:24,369 article which was featuring the fact 1030 00:52:33,089 --> 00:52:29,140 that many of the most important members 1031 00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:33,099 or associates of that murder trial the 1032 00:52:40,410 --> 00:52:36,250 judge the jury foreman the prosecutor 1033 00:52:44,849 --> 00:52:40,420 some of the witnesses had either died or 1034 00:52:48,890 --> 00:52:44,859 suffered terrible misfortune and some of 1035 00:52:53,339 --> 00:52:48,900 the reporters remembered seeing Holmes 1036 00:52:57,839 --> 00:52:53,349 compiling a list of names while the 1037 00:53:00,990 --> 00:52:57,849 trial was ongoing and they assumed that 1038 00:53:03,569 --> 00:53:01,000 it was names that Holmes was irritated 1039 00:53:05,819 --> 00:53:03,579 or upset with so the New York Times 1040 00:53:11,180 --> 00:53:05,829 wrote this story and when I read that 1041 00:53:14,579 --> 00:53:11,190 article I was fascinated knowing that 1042 00:53:16,140 --> 00:53:14,589 that's the way he thought Jennifer he 1043 00:53:19,140 --> 00:53:16,150 wouldn't have been thinking he could 1044 00:53:21,059 --> 00:53:19,150 have gotten away with a murder trial he 1045 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:21,069 would have been already thinking about 1046 00:53:27,390 --> 00:53:24,490 escaping execution and then on his own 1047 00:53:30,809 --> 00:53:27,400 under his terms going back to visit 1048 00:53:33,210 --> 00:53:30,819 those men who had irritated or upset him 1049 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:33,220 and that's what I believe actually 1050 00:53:38,460 --> 00:53:36,970 happened in real life I agree and I 1051 00:53:41,730 --> 00:53:38,470 think the same thing happened from 1052 00:53:44,519 --> 00:53:41,740 reading it because my first thought was 1053 00:53:50,609 --> 00:53:44,529 with a smart and methodical eyes he 1054 00:53:54,769 --> 00:53:50,619 wasn't as careful as he was yeah do we 1055 00:53:57,620 --> 00:53:54,779 know where he died the area generally 1056 00:54:03,329 --> 00:53:57,630 there anyway does does anybody have a 1057 00:54:05,759 --> 00:54:03,339 even a hunch well I got a Kevin thanks 1058 00:54:07,980 --> 00:54:05,769 thanks for asking me that because now 1059 00:54:12,180 --> 00:54:07,990 that I've proved and then it wasn't 1060 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:12,190 homes in the grave my next investigation 1061 00:54:19,470 --> 00:54:16,450 is to go to the place where I think he 1062 00:54:21,420 --> 00:54:19,480 actually is buried to see if we can 1063 00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:21,430 remove his remains there and then do 1064 00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:24,160 another DNA test but that's quite a ways 1065 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:26,680 down the road these things take 1066 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:29,170 permission from so many authorities you 1067 00:54:34,590 --> 00:54:31,330 can't believe it and an amount of money 1068 00:54:37,050 --> 00:54:34,600 that's breathtaking no it cost us over a 1069 00:54:42,810 --> 00:54:37,060 million dollars to exhume homes and in 1070 00:54:44,310 --> 00:54:42,820 Pennsylvania Wow yeah so it's not 1071 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:44,320 something I can just snap my fingers 1072 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:47,050 over it's something I'll do it's like 1073 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:49,090 it's like I'm going to excavate the 1074 00:54:52,350 --> 00:54:50,770 murder castle one day I'm going to get 1075 00:54:54,810 --> 00:54:52,360 permission I'm going to get the 1076 00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:54,820 financial backing and I'm going to have 1077 00:54:59,280 --> 00:54:57,130 that done as well but it's it takes a 1078 00:55:01,170 --> 00:54:59,290 lot of work it's like going on shows 1079 00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:01,180 like yours where I get your listeners to 1080 00:55:05,730 --> 00:55:03,520 help me maybe buy a copy of bloodstains 1081 00:55:10,290 --> 00:55:05,740 so that I can put that to you know our 1082 00:55:13,230 --> 00:55:10,300 next our next steps and why I appreciate 1083 00:55:15,450 --> 00:55:13,240 the support that you both give me you 1084 00:55:19,410 --> 00:55:15,460 know on having me guest on shows like 1085 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:19,420 yours well thank you for coming on yes 1086 00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:22,210 thank you so much this was definitely 1087 00:55:27,020 --> 00:55:24,310 worth waiting for you know it was a 1088 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:27,030 pleasure boy yeah I really enjoyed it 1089 00:55:32,790 --> 00:55:30,730 and everybody go by bloodstains yeah 1090 00:55:35,070 --> 00:55:32,800 really good yeah if you haven't got a 1091 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:35,080 copy of bloodstains and you want to know 1092 00:55:39,090 --> 00:55:37,210 what we're talking about in more detail 1093 00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:39,100 then you definitely need to get a copy 1094 00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:41,920 because once you read that book your 1095 00:55:48,359 --> 00:55:45,280 paradigm will shift completely I know 1096 00:55:51,090 --> 00:55:48,369 minded but I know and I think you know 1097 00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:51,100 what all you ollie all you really have 1098 00:55:55,020 --> 00:55:53,170 to do is is just Google up bloodstains 1099 00:55:57,780 --> 00:55:55,030 one word and you'll come up with our 1100 00:56:00,720 --> 00:55:57,790 website for the book order form also 1101 00:56:02,580 --> 00:56:00,730 some interesting new material we have on 1102 00:56:04,620 --> 00:56:02,590 there that you might find interesting as 1103 00:56:06,750 --> 00:56:04,630 well and like I say get on the 1104 00:56:08,130 --> 00:56:06,760 bloodstains Facebook page follow it 1105 00:56:09,930 --> 00:56:08,140 because there's going to be some new 1106 00:56:13,020 --> 00:56:09,940 material on there in the next few days 1107 00:56:15,150 --> 00:56:13,030 which is going to astound you yeah I 1108 00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:15,160 know I definitely will be that's for 1109 00:56:24,049 --> 00:56:19,920 sure you heard it from the man yeah so 1110 00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:24,059 thank you so much it was pleasure having 1111 00:56:30,620 --> 00:56:28,049 you on and we'll see everybody here next 1112 00:56:32,420 --> 00:56:30,630 week to the believer the evidence is 1113 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:32,430 overwhelming into the skeptic there will 1114 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:35,010 never be enough thank you god bless you 1115 00:57:47,300 --> 00:56:36,930 everybody have a wonderful weekend and 1116 00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:50,520 New York and company is the best kept 1117 00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:52,690 secret for great fashion at amazing 1118 00:57:57,150 --> 00:57:55,690 prices the new holiday collection has 1119 00:57:59,609 --> 00:57:57,160 arrived in this weekend is the 1120 00:58:02,880 --> 00:57:59,619 friends-and-family sale every single 1121 00:58:05,070 --> 00:58:02,890 thing 50% off from holiday party outfits 1122 00:58:08,010 --> 00:58:05,080 that sparkle to hundreds of spectacular 1123 00:58:10,530 --> 00:58:08,020 gifts starting at $5 they have something 1124 00:58:12,660 --> 00:58:10,540 for everyone including new arrivals from 1125 00:58:15,690 --> 00:58:12,670 their exclusive celebrity brands from 1126 00:58:17,130 --> 00:58:15,700 Ava Mendes and Gabrielle Union hurry and